Sir William Follett asked whether the Attorney-General intended to have these clauses printed before the Bill was read a third time. If he understood correctly the clause which his learned Friend had now introduced for the better control of the municipal funds, it was calculated to increase the very evil which it was professedly intended to check. Oh! then he did not understand the clause which his learned Friend had introduced, and that was a sufficient reason for having it printed for further consideration. swered a specific charge; but as the hon. | The hon. Member for Hythe had spoken Gentleman had shifted his ground, he of the meeting at which this petition was hardly knew how to deal with the complaint got up, and had said that our party was which had been brought against him. He very skilful in the practice of getting up admitted, that when one hon. Member hole-and-corner meetings. Now the hon. had a charge to bring against another, it Member had made that assertion very was usual to give him notice of it. But boldly, and he would meet it as boldly with he (Sir E. Knatchbull) had no charge to a counter-assertion. That petition was bring against the hon. Member. "But," not got up at a hole-and-corner meeting. said the hon. Member, "you brought a Any opposition which he had given to the charge against my constituents, and you Bill was given with the intention of amendought to have given me notice thereof." | ing it, and the clause which the AttorneyNow, he contended that no such duty was General had brought up that evening eximposed upon him either by the law or the actly met his view of the case. He hoped usage of Parliament. What he had done that the Attorney-General would let the was this, he had given notice to the Bill, as amended, be printed, in order that House that he would present a certain the House might have an opportunity of petition complaining of the misconduct of seeing it in a corrected form before it the Mayor of Hythe, and he thought that left the House. that was a sufficient notice to the hon. Member that he intended to present such a petition. The next day the hon. Member had met him in the House and with a degree of warmth which he himself was not in the habit of exhibiting, reproached him with not having given the bon. Member the ordinary notice. He told the hon. Member that notice of his intention was inserted in the papers of the House; to which the hon. Member replied, that he had left his house at ten o'clock and that those papers had not then arrived. He thought that he had now said sufficient to convince the hon. Member that he had not, been guilty of any want of courtesy towards him. If he had he begged to state that it had been unintentionally. He would now ask the hon. Member for Hythe whether he was in the House during the discussion, on the petition? [Mr. S. Marjoribanks: He was not.] That was just the answer which he anticipated. He admitted that the petition contained a serious charge against the Mayor of Hythe, but he had not presented it with a view of instituting a charge against any person, but with the view of obtaining such an alteration in the law as would prevent the Mayor of Hythe or the mayor of any other place from acting in a similar way in future. He had said that there were other allegations in the petition, which showed the animus of the parties; but he had refrained from noticing those allegations, because he did not wish to cover those parties with obloquy. These were the facts of the case, and he would now leave the House to judge, whether he had acted wrongly or unkindly to any of the parties concerned. VOL. XXXVI. {T} Third The report brought up, and taken into consideration. Mr. Scarlett begged leave to bring up a clause for the better regulating the election of aldermen. The present mode of electing aldermen was in violation of the principle of the Bill, which, as he understood it, was intended to place corporations under popular control and superintendence. At present the alder men were elected by a majority of the council. He proposed that they should in future be elected by the burgesses at large. The result of the present mode of electing aldermen was, that the minority in the corporations had no representatives at all among the aldermen. This gave both parties an interest in carrying the election of a majority of their own party as councillors; and it often happened that those who were rejected as councillors, were elected as aldermen by their party in the council, to give it addí. tional strength and influence. To curs this, he would give to the burgesses, instead of to the council, the power of electing the aldermen, Y The hon.Member brought up his clause. The Attorney-General could not say that the plan of allowing the aldermen to be elected by the burgesses at large was not a good one. It would, however, be a fundamental change in the constitution of these corporations. The clause which his hon. Friend wished to alter, was a clause framed elsewhere, no doubt with the same wisdom which pervaded all its legislation. It was connected with many other clauses, and any alteration in it would dislocate the Bill exceedingly. He thought that his hon. Friend had better bring in a Bill to amend the state of the law affecting corporations, and to cure the defects which had been introduced into it by amendments made elsewhere. At present, according to the clause framed elsewhere, the aldermen were elected by the council. This Bill introduced no organic change into the original Bill, and he therefore must object to the reception of the present clause. The House divided on the clause :-Ayes 34; Noes 93: Majority 59. Mr. Scarlett knew of no case where the circumstance of the office of sheriff being executed by two persons occasioned doubt or delay. The duty of sheriff was merely ministerial, and he therefore thought that the clause he proposed might be advantageously adopted; but as his hon, and learned Friend did not concur with him, he should not press the question to a division. Mr. Finch proposed the insertion of the following clauses, declaring, contained, shall prevent the levying and col Το He had been induced to propose these clauses to prevent the hardship to individuals which otherwise might occur. show that such a provision was called for, he had only to mention a case that had recently occurred at St. Alban's. Before the passing of the Municipal Corporations Act, the liberty and borough of the town of St. Alban's were authorized con Mr. Scarlett rose to move another clause, the object of which was to give to every corporate town two sheriffs, as in London and Dublin. The circumstance of there being but one executive officer was calculated to create distrust and ex-jointly to raise money on the security of cite political and party feeling. It was perfectly natural that men should feel, or at least suspect, that juries were not impartially chosen when there was but one sheriff. To the case of elections, the same objection applied with equal force. The clause which he then submitted to the House, would neither interfere with the duties of sheriff, the mode of election, nor the persons by whom elected, but merely alter the number of those officers in towns corporate, electing them as the aldermen were elected. The Attorney-General would oppose the clause. He felt some hesitation as to the election of aldermen, but he should decidedly object to the application of the same principle to the choice of sheriffs. He conceived that the Bill would not be improved by the introduction of this clause. There appeared to be no reason whatever why two sheriffs should be appointed. Why not have three or five, that there might in case of differences of opinion be a casting voice? If there were to be two sheriffs, why not two mayors, and carry the dual number throughout the whole corporation. the rates for certain local purposes. A rev. gentleman, on the faith of the law as it then stood, lent a sum of money to the corporation to build a court-house; and since the passing of the Municipal Corporations Act a question had arisen as to whether the interest should be paid by the liberty or the borough? The effect of the doubt was to deprive the party of his interest; and unless the Legislature interposed to protect him by an enactment of this kind, a great injustice would be inflicted upon him, as it was by no means certain that the Court of King's Bench, or any other legal tribunal, could afford him relief. Under such considerations he trusted that the hon, and learned Gentleman would not oppose the motion. The Attorney-General was very sorry that he could not comply with the hon. Gentleman's request. The clause was unnecessary, and, therefore, he must oppose it. It was a mistake to suppose that the rev. gentleman alluded to, would not get his money. The law as it stood would afford him all the remedy that he was entitled to have, and as to which party, whether the borough or the liberty, was medy it. Mr. A. Trevor said, that if the course taken by the hon. and learned Gentlemen opposite, the law officers of the Crown, were justice, all he could say was, that justice was but an empty name. Equity and justice would suggest a very different cause. liable to the payment of the interst, that was | Corporations Bill, they were bound to re- The Solicitor-General said, that as it was impossible for the House to determine the judicial point which had arisen in the case referred to, it would be most improper to introduce such clauses as these into the Bill. He must, therefore, give it his opposition. Mr. O'Connell did not think that House could decide such a question. Sir T. Fremantle said, that all they required was, that just debts should be paid; that the saddle should be put on the right horse. Mr. Jervis said, that until they were in the position to say on which party the burthen ought to fall, it would be absurd to legislate on the subject. Mr. Finch said, it was admitted on all hands that injustice had been done. That injustice had grown out of their own Act of Parliament; and although the hon. and learned Gentleman opposite declared that the King's Bench could apply a reMr. Goulburn thought, that the case had medy, another professional man had stated not been fully stated to the House. The that the only way in which the evil could fact was, that if the Municipal Corpora- be rectified, would be by a short Act of tion Bill had not passed, such an injury as Parliament, the expense of which he said was now complained of, never would the Government ought to bear, inasmuch have arisen. The party advanced his as it was occasioned by "their own stupid money on the faith of an Act of Parlia- blundering." Now, had an application ment, which empowered the Corporation been made to Lord Melbourne, or any to pledge the rates. He lent his money other of his Majesty's Ministers, to bring to build a court- house, and although he in an Act of Parliament on the subject, had got a mortgage on the rates, it turned was it likely that it would be attended out that, owing to a difficulty which had with success? He thought not; but, at arisen out of the new law, he had been all events, he was satisfied that the hon. deprived of that interest to which he was and learned Member for Kilkenny was so strictly entitled. This was not just, and much engaged with his own deep specuwhatever might be the opinion of the hon.lations, as to be unable to see the matter and learned Gentleman opposite, to use in its true light. the words of his hon. Friend, "the Gog and Magog of the bar," he must deny that it was consistent with justice to leave the individual alluded to, the expensive remedy of a suit in the Court of King's Bench, when the evil might be remedied by a provision such as his hon. Friend had proposed. They should not forget that the whole of the difficulty was of their own creating. The Attorney-General, thought that in such a case, that House ought not to interfere. The question as to the liability of the liberty or the borough, was one which a legal tribunal alone could decide. Mr. Goulburn repeated that, as the injustice had arisen out of the Municipal Motion negatived. Mr. Hodgson Hind moved the inser tion of a clause in these words: "And be it further enacted, that all hospitals for the maintenance of aged and decayed freemen, their widows, or daughters, which have heretofore been supported out of the corporate funds of any city or town, shall continue to be supported out of such corporate funds; and that so often as any vacancy shall occur in any such hospital, the same shall be filled up within three calendar months, by the mayor, alderman, and council, of the city or town in which such hospital is situated. Provided always, that no part of the expense of such hospital shall be defrayed out of any borough rate, or out of the produce of any tolls." The Attorney-General said, that as the sense of the House had been so fully taken upon this clause already, he felt himself bound to oppose the motion, that it be brought up. On a former occasion a majority of nearly two to one had decided against the clause. As the law at present stood, the Corporations were empowered to apply the surplus of their funds to the general benefit and use of the inhabitants. Unless the hon. Member meant to make the clause compulsory it would be useless, as the Corporations had now the power to make such a provision if they chose to do so; and to make the clause compulsory would be an injustice, inasmuch as it would compel the application of funds intended for the general use of the inhabitants, to the benefit of a particular class. Mr. H. Hind contended, that in equity these parties were entitled to the benefit which he sought to obtain for them. Those institutions had heretofore been maintained out of the funds of the Corporations, and he sought to obtain for those individuals a continuance of those advantages which they had heretofore enjoyed. Mr. Burdon said, that so far as the Corporation of Newcastle was concerned, it was at present in a state little short of bankruptcy, and it was not likely that it had money to devote to this purpose. If the hon. Member had framed a clause so as to include decayed men, &c., instead of confining the relief to a particular class, he would have supported it. JUDGES' OPINIONS.] Sir Eardley Wilmot moved the second reading of the Judges' Opinions Bill, and stated that, in former times, and until recently, when any difficulty arose in any cases tried at quarter sessions, by persons holding the commission of the peace, such difficulty was not to be decided unless in the presence of a Judge of Assize. At present it was the practice, if the friends of a prisoner convicted at quarter sessions, or before a recorder, thought that the conviction was illegal, to forward a memorial to the Home Secretary, who generally referred the case to the opinions of the law officers of the Crown. He objected that the officers of the Crown should be the justicial referees, and he preferred returning to the ancient practice. He proposed in the present Bill that if in the case of any prisoner tried at quarter sessions, a difficulty arose upon any point of law the opinion of the going Judge of Assize should be taken thereupon. He proposed that, in the meantime, the prisoner should be respited. If the Judge decided that the conviction was legal the sentence should be carried into execution; if, on the contrary, the conviction was held to be illegal the prisoner should then be discharged. He moved that the Bill be read a second time. The Solicitor-General felt that the country was greatly indebted to the hon. Baronet for bringing forward his measure, which was calculated to put an end to a most objectionable anomaly. Bill read a second time. Mr. Robinson considered the clause FICTITIOUS VOTERS (SCOTLAND) COM. would be nugatory, unless it was made MITTEE.] Mr. Horsman moved that the compulsory upon the town-council, so to hon. Member for Roscommon (Mr. D. apply a portion of the funds of the Cor-O'Connor) be discharged from his attend-poration. He thought if relief of this kind were to be provided, it should not be for a particular class, but for the poor of the borough generally. He felt bound to oppose the clause. Mr. A. Trevor trusted his hon. Friend would take the sense of the House on the clause. He was not surprised that justice and equity should be denied the freemen. He had no hesitation to say that in the language adopted by the hon. Gentlemen opposite, justice and equity were out of the question. Report received, and Bill to be read a third time. ance on this Committee, and that 'Mr. Divett be substituted in his stead. the Committee Mr. Cumming Bruce objected to the motion. It was most important, in order to render the result of this inquiry useful and satisfactory, that should be free from all imputations of party motives, and have the character of perfect impartiality. He did not think at the time that this Committee was proposed that it was calculated to effect the object it proposed to accomplish. However, seeing that both sides of the House were unanimous on the subject, he gave way. He thought, however, that the plan on which the hon. Member intended to pro ceed was sufficiently indicated when, at the commencement, he at one fell swoop excluded no less than six Scotch Members of counties, and subsequently two other Scotch Members, from the Committee, on the ground that, as the inquiry would refer particularly to their constituencies, they were not eligible to be placed on this Committee. He protested against this unusual course of disqualifying Members, which in cases where party influence was involved in the issue might be carried to a dangerous extent. He had no objection that the hon. Member for Roscommon, whose impartiality was beyond suspicion, should be discharged from his labours, as he understood that he had urgent reasons for going to Ireland, but he objected to the proposed substitution of the hon. Member for Exeter. He had had a very old acquaintance with that hon. Member, and personally he entertained for him much regard, but he certainly objected to having him placed on this Committee. He perceived that the hon. Member had, a few days ago, been discharged from his attendance on the Committee on private Bills. Unless there was a particular motive in substituting the hon. Member for Exeter he did not know why such anxiety should exist on the part of those at the other side of the House. Now he had reason to know that Mr. Patrick Stewart, the hon. Member for Lancaster, and Lord Robert Grosvenor had stated that they had no objection to serve on this Committee. He had not any objection to the appointment of either of those hon. Members, but he certainly thought that there must be some motive for the eagerness to place the hon. Member for Exeter on this Committee. That hon. Member had, on a recent occasion, shown little capacity to separate the innocent from the guilty, as he had voted for the punishment of a large number of admittedly innocent and incorrupt voters because certain other electors of the borough to which they belonged had been proved guilty of bribery and corruption. From all these considerations, and feeling the importance that the Committee should possess an undoubted character for impartiality, he should oppose the motion. Mr. Warburton wished to call the attention of the House to the principle on which the Committee had been appointed. It was composed of an equal number of Members from both sides of the House, with an intermixture of others of moderate politics. One of the Members who had been placed on the Committee, the hon. Member for Roscommon, was obliged to go to Ireland, in consequence of a family affliction, and was not likely soon to return. The Committee was to sit on Tuesday next, and it was proposed to substitute in his place a Member of equally pronounced politics, in order to keep the balance of the Committee equal. There was nothing in that proposal which could be called unfair. And to take an hon. Member from one Committee to serve on another was nothing unusual. Mr. Maclean said, that the Committee was of a peculiar character, being, as he considered it similar to an Election Committee. For his own part he saw no occasion whatever for it. The votes on which it was to make inquiries had been already decided on by the Courts of Registration, and there was no necessity to go over them again. Great care ought to be taken in meddling with the Committee, after its having been once appointed, and he thought it singular to remove an hon. Member from one Committee to place him on another. Mr. F. Maule was of opinion that to substitute the hon. Member for Exeter for the hon. Member for Roscommon was quite reasonable. Mr. George F. Young begged leave to observe, that the hon. Member for Roscommon was a man of moderate politics, and that, constituted as the Committee was, they were bound to substitute some Gentleman whose opinions were of at least as moderate a nature, in order that the House and the public might have confidence in the result of the inquiry. He believed the hon. Member for Lancaster (Mr. P. M. Stewart), who was in every respect fitted to assist in that inquiry, would have no objection to be named on the Committee in the place of the hon. Member for Roscommon, and he would move as an amendment that his name be substituted therefore. Mr. R. Steuart supported the original motion, and defended the original constitution of the Committee, a list of the members of which he had previously shown to the hon. Member for Edinburghshire. Sir T. Fremantle said, that when a noble Lord, a Member of the Committee, and of that side of the House, was likely to have been obliged to absent himself, they had |